Way to Russia Talk Lounge

sexyknees · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: To ask or not to ask??

I am just about to travel out to Russia on my third trip to visit the woman of my dreams and am seeking a little advice from anyone prepared to give it, especially native Russians.

My girlfriend and me have always hit it off and are very close, we send many texts and emails because we rely heavily on dictionaries and translators. Love was proclaimed very early, on the third day of my first visit last summer.

At the end of my last trip after we had been snowboarding and hanging out in her native city we were sitting in the airport and she asked me if she could call me her favorite husband. I was a little bemused and said that I would prefer only husband but that it was something I would love to be called anyway...now here is the question.

Is it time to propose? Normally going with gut instincts I would say to myself yes but there are a couple of aspects that have to be considered.

First, I have never met her parents and coming myself from a traditional family I believe it is polite to ask the permission of the father first.
Second, going back to the question at the airport it still puzzles me, was this her asking my hand in marriage as I believe it was.

any hints or helpful advice? Is asking the father an important step in Russia, has anyone any ideas as to why I haven't met them yet? I know if and when she comes here it would be difficult to keep the family at bay and we'd be surrounded by curious aunties and uncles.

darthvader · WayToRussified Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 363

You really should get to know her in the context of being with her and her family for some significant time. You may learn new things about her.

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 577 Location: Moscow

"Her favorite husband"? There are others?

Yes, if you haven't met her family yet and you are the favorite husband Rolling Eyes

this is not a good thing. No Russian girl would walk into matrimony with a foreigner against the wishes of her family. You've never even seen her family.

I'm sure she is a nice girl. She sounds very young. I would caution you that if you propose marriage to this lass you do not know what you're getting into.

Proposals and rings are one thing, getting the necessary legitimate documentation done is a very difficult process. Then there are living arrangements which are more difficult yet.

Before you let your heart run away with you, investigate carefully the process for marriage to a Russian in Russia. Documents take a minimum of 6 months. Then you would either want to stay in Russia with her or move her to your home country: minimum 2 years.

Dealing with the legalities of international marriage and bureauracies is difficult, time consuming, and expensive. Know what you're doing before you open your mouth about marriage proposals.

Not trying to offend you, but I am strongly suggesting you have no idea what you're talking about.

sexyknees · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: No offense taken

Thanks for the advice.
No, there are no others and I am as sure as one can ever be that this is the truth. This relationship will be a long distance one until she has finished her studies in four years so I believe I can take the advice from both of you at the same time, that is get to know her better and expat I think the hinge point on your bleak outline of the bureaucracies is that when we marry it should be on British soil.

I have friends here who have managed the marriage process so hard as it may be it is possible after all I have the patience of a rattlesnake and money is not an issue.

so I'll leave the ring for a later date and think about buying a little flat over there.

expat when you say

Varrah · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure how to put it here correctly, by I have several examples from my Russian friends that got married in secret from their parents... So you could met one of those "ya sama" (I, myself) girls, that want to decide it without the influence from her parents.

Yet you should at least meet with her parents. She may be shy about them. I do not know what's her social status, but may be she is afraid that her father is e.g. an engineer from a forgotten-by-government-institute, that now drinks vodka or is just too rush in judging "those damn foreigners", so she is afraid what you would think about her parents and vice versa.

And that said by overseas_expat is also true - going married with foreigner is quite a hard paperwork for Russians, and, lately, had paper work for foreigners to get the right to live in Russia. So be prepared to this.

But, you love her, huh? If so, and if she loves you too, you will soon pass it Smile

sexyknees · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: Probably right there Varrah

I think you might be right that she is shy about her parents, they are white collar and sober people, not sure about the damn foreigners bit, maybe they do think this but I know that if they didn't let her see me she wouldn't and I wouldn't force the issue, "respect thy parents" and all that.

I will leave off the proposal for another trip I have decided. There are much more romantic places to do this anyway, somewhere where neither of us require a visa like Egypt.

The paperwork is a bummer yes, but it is possible and where there's a will there's a way...expat says I have no idea well if I did would I be on a blog site asking? There's one wide open space that has left the States!

Thanks for that Varrah,
R

MelissaCato · Lounge Lizard Joined: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 166

Hummm, sounds to complicated to me. Are the Men like this too ?

Varrah · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:

Well, as Russians say "everyone has his own cockroaches in the head". So you can say that men are also "hard to understand". This all goes from the child and youth years, since our society is patriarchal, I mean a bit "old-style", so relations to foreigners and matrimonial prospects with foreigners can be affected.
But this really depends on the environment in which each person was born and grew. Younger people are far more simpler in these questions now.

sexyknees · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: Afterword

Thank you all for your contributions!
My trip to Russia was as always thrilling and an adventure. This time I got the chance to meet her parents and it turns out that the reason it took so long was because they had been renovating and were still in the middle of it, things take a little longer over there, they were feeling a little ashamed but that of course is nonsense...it took me over a year to finish my house Wink

. They were and are salt of the earth people, we had a lovely meal and I got to see so many photos, I also had the mac with me and showed some of mine, her father was very interested in the political situation here and her mum just wanted to get to know my family background and me a little.

The funniest thing happened at the meal. Her mother basically asked ME what the future held for us and if I intended to marry her daughter...I was dumb struck but only for a matter of seconds. So in the end she set the theme for the entire stay, I told my girlfriend how I felt and said there was no rush that I had actually planned to delay the question, she gave me the answer at the airport just before I left, I will give her a ring at the top of the highest mountain in Germany when we go snowboarding together in January.

All is well that ends well, keep the faith all of you and expat; no offense meant but you do not know hat you are talking about Wink

Rich Rich

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 577 Location: Moscow

Good luck.

Remember this is only the beginning.

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 577 Location: Moscow

P.S. .........

I have copied and pasted this excerpt which you should definitely read before you float too far away on Cloud 9.

A Few Facts to Know Before Marrying a Russian Citizen

There is, of course, one other way to legally stay in Russia if a foreigner cannot obtain a work permit - get married. Expats who are considering marrying a Russian citizen while in the country on a valid business visa may be able to legally stay in the country while awaiting permanent residency, provided that their Russian spouse can prove that he or she has a registered home and earns an income deemed sufficient to support the foreign spouse. Since foreigners cannot legally work in Russia without a work permit, however, only the income of the Russian spouse counts towards the required minimal level of support. If the bride is an eighteen year old student living with her parents, then going this route is probably not advisable. If the Russian bride or groom is older with a decent salary and is willing to support their spouse for a few months until the foreigner can find legal paid work, then it might prove feasible.

Another fact to be aware of is that, with the exception of urgent cases when the bride is obviously pregnant, marriage licenses in Russia are typically issued thirty days after the couple first appears together in person to sign an application stating their intentions. This makes it difficult for couples to get married while the foreign partner is visiting on a 30-day tourist visa, unless the couple can make a beeline to the wedding palace straight from the airport (needless to say, if you have not spent a considerable amount of time with your Russian bride or groom, such quickie marriages are ill-advised). Some clergy in Russia and Ukraine might be willing to perform a religious (but not legal) ceremony without a government-issued marriage license, but Russian Orthodox priests usually will not perform the sacrament of vinchane (crowning) without a certificate. Moscow only has one "ZAGS" (Zapis Aktov Grazhdanskogo Sostoyaniya) where foreigners can marry Russian citizens, at 17 Butyrsky Ulitsa. In every other major Russian city, contact the nearest ZAGS office and foreign consulate for more details.

Before getting married, all foreigners will need a current, valid visa in their passport, and previously divorced partners will need a death certificate for their former spouse or divorce decrees to obtain additional documents proving that they are legally free to remarry. Every foreign legal document must be translated into Russian by a notary public, and both British and American citizens must sign affidavits at their embassies affirming that they are free to marry (for FAQs, click here and here). The last step in this process is registering the marriage with the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Moscow, located at Neopalimovskiy Pereulok, dom 12a near the Smolenskaya Metro station on Moscow's dark blue line.

At first, the idea of staying in Russia with a spouse may sound wonderful, especially for a foreigner who speaks Russian and/or has marketable skills in a growth industries in Russia, such as energy, construction, hospitality, finance or high-end retail management. But foreigners intending to take a Russian spouse back to their homeland may encounter some difficulties. Staying in Russia for a few years could make proving that you and your spouse intend to reside permanently in your home country (especially if your spouse wants to obtain a green card in the U.S.) a more challenging proposition. In any case, couples should be prepared for several months of waiting for an interview at their nearest Embassy or Consulate followed by years of tedious paperwork and government application fees, to say nothing of the legal costs if the couple hires an attorney.

It is highly recommended that couples contemplating marriage should at least obtain an initial consultation with an immigration lawyer to find out which questions they need answered (be advised, not all of the information on U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services websites is up to date and many programs involving expedited petitioner filing for adjustment of status in select cities are subject to change). Moscow has many lawyers fluent in English that specialize in assisting petitioners and foreign adoptive parents with their immigration cases, and these law firms list their services on websites such as expat.ru and redtape.ru. Expat.ru and other forums also feature online message boards with helpful advice on these topics.

For U.S. citizens, legally marrying a spouse abroad and bringing him or her to the U.S. on a K-3 (spouse) visa is usually going to take longer than going through with a K-1 fiancée visa, due to the fact that USCIS requires evidence that couple have been legally married according to the laws of the country where the petitioners first obtained their marriage license.

www russiablog .org

sexyknees · Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the article, interesting reading but it is of no surprise, I have been to Russia enough times now to realise that they do not make things easy for you, I have often thought "how do they get anything done here".

I must say I find the general tone of your replies extremely pessimistic, almost embittered; is there a reason for this or do you just enjoy trying to burst people's bubbles...maybe you should know that I have always achieved what I set my mind on and that if I had spent my life listening to numpties who say stuff like "ooooh VERY difficult" then I wouldn't be where I am today, I would never have set up my own company indeed I would never have gone to University. I find that this kind of warning like advice is usually given by someone who wouldn't couldn't or shouldn't .

After making my own enquiries through the British embassy and my beloved Visa company the reality is that it will be quite straight forward considering my financial position and our history together; I have the blessing of her parents who I think are excellent and educated people and my fiance is quite happy to join me here, so I am chuffed, not quite cloud 9 as you say, I will be there when my first born comes to the world, but it is a step on the way.

a word of advice to one who loves to give it " never say I can't; say I'll try!"