Way to Russia Talk Lounge

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

I had my Confirmation recently Very Happy

, went absolutley terrific btw, and invited two girls from school.One is Jewish, the other is Orthodox and surprisingly, both sets of their parents forbid them to go.I'm sad I couldn't share a special day with them but somewhat understand their decisions. I wasn't exactly psyched that one time the counselors at summer camp in Rymanow Zdroj took us to an Orthodox church, either.There's gotta be a the law somewhere against taking group of thirteen-year-old children you have no rights over to your religious services.

cyndy22 · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:00 am Post subject:

J. Polska, ie. Agatha but more importantly, what do your friendsakm you?

I am sorry for you that your two friends who you invited to attend your recent confirmation were not able to attend. Not so much because I am a big Catholic or any religious type. Clearly I am not. While I was raised Roman Catholic by my mother, by the time I was 12, I began my own questionniong re not only religion but also politics, love, sex, justice, human rights, philosophy etc etc. And I of course stillhave so many questions. Thought now at 48 yrs. old, I must say that I am not so much concerned with answers. At least in my view, religion just like love, relationships, and life are based on something that is more in tune with heart and soul. Religion don't get me wrong can be a very good, loving and forgiving venue for many. I just have not been so able to get past the fact fpr example that my

Organized religion while certainly has many good benefits, just like otherreligions clearly has flaws. People can strive to do their very best to serve their religion and god(s), and that is all well and good. But people in the world are far from perfect. I think you will agree that we all have our share of good, bad, beauty, ugliness, sanity, craziness,intelligence, stupidity, love, lust, and so muc h more... just look at this forum's postings... Laughing

I am a bit surprised that you are so empathetic with your friend's parental decisions that resulted in your 2friendsnot attending your confirmation. But perhaps Agatha, you are sensitive, smart, intuitive, and compassionate enough to understand their decision to protect their children.

PS I will not even reference your devious, sexual past!!!! Laughing

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

But I was a bit hurt.I really thought religion wouldn't be an issue, enspecially since my friends' parents know me Crying or Very sad

.

Honestly, wouldn't you let your son go to a Bar Mitzah?

cyndy22 · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject:

I agree with you. I would and will allow my son to attend his friend's religious ceremonies if he is invited. I think not only is it nice to share a special event with one's friend and family, but it is good to be exposed to different religions, rituals and beliefs. But some people obviously have much stronger beliefs about religion than me. Some people feel its wrong to attend religious ceremonies that are different then their own.

BTW Alex is making his first communion 5/1st. He was really funny my husband said when he made his 1st penance last Saturday. When the priest told him to go say a prayer in front of the statue set up for tribute to the Pope, Alex told tbhe priest,"no, no, no, no, no,, I want to go to the other guy's statue". Alex was referring to St. Joseph. So Alex set a precedent for all of the other children, who were then allowed to choose between the pope and St. Joseph to go to. Smile

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

OMG, that's so cute! Tell Alex that I wish him all the very best on his First Communion.May he get all the presents he wanted.

What made you decide to raise your son Catholic, if I can ask?

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:19 am Post subject:

My husband and I were both raised as Catholics. In my case, I l eft the church should I say prematurely but my husband did not expereience certain life chalLenges thAt queustionned his faith sO strongly. Of course this is only a very simplistic answer. For example my father was not raised Catholic and was married befiore My mother. The Catholic church made a mockery of my dad. And thatNeaves me with serious distaste for not only CaTholicism but religion..Sorry.

renwan · Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204

Gosh!

Pope was enemy of USSR and Warsaw Pact, he supported Solidarnosc, and plotted against USSR and China. He is enemy of Communism and Socialism.

Also, he is Catholic Supreme Pontiff, that means - he is heretic (Roman Catholicism is heresy, the only true Christianity is Orthodox Christianity), and enemy of Holy Russia.

I don't feel remorse for a racist, who supports the oppression of women, homosexuals, and is against birth control, and told africans that using condoms is a sin, all the while their aids rate is fast approaching 40%

Probably he was good guy, but he was our enemy: dedicated anti-communist, russophobe and heretic.

Ront In Hell. Evil or Very Mad

EDIT: also hes a Pole, wtf is he doing in the Russian People section?

vorteks · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject:

Such words of wisdom and friendship should bring you lots of interest in here, Renwan Very Happy

USSR is no more, why was he still regarded as a threat by russian authorities (who are not communist btw). Russophobic? Do you have evidences of this? Why would a man who visits in prison the man who attempted to kill him feel resentment for a whole nation? How could somebody professing eucumenism, who met muslin, buddhist, protestant, jewish leaders, be possibly regarded as schismatic/heretic?

From what i recall, what was advised was fidelity within marriage and abstinence until marriage to prevent the development of sexually transmitted deseases, which makes much sense, but is difficult to apply to a consumerist environment. It s the role of a religious leader to defend moral values against basic instincts. Priests are much more pragmatic.

If you check the first post, I started this thread to find out if his death had been commented on russian medias, but, like most threads here, it digressed. At least, you are the fist one to try to answer in details one of the questions : how was he percieved by russians.

renwan · Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204

gonzock · Lounge Lizard Joined: 17 Feb 2005 Posts: 101

I agree with your post vortetks but when you said " It is the role of a religious leader to defend moral values against basic instincts" did you really mean all that? For me the role of a religious leader is to defend moral values they have. In my opinion some basic instincts aren´t morally wrong. One is having sex before marriage or use condoms. For me he had no other option since he was the leader of the Catholic church. If you are catholic you should follow what the old testment, new testment and Pope says. You have the choice of not belonging to that church. He is not guilty at all for that but I disagree with the moral they predict

renwan · Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204

He can rot in hell, thanks to him Africa's AIDS level is 40%, he could at least have explained the benefits of condoms and not just qualifying it's use as a sin, but of course when you are 84 years old and a virgin (LOL) you cant really use your brain.....so just for qualifying the use of things that can save lifes as sin, he can nicely rott in hell. (if there is any)

gonzock · Lounge Lizard Joined: 17 Feb 2005 Posts: 101

"he was enemy of BOTH Communism AND Christianity"
Dude, you really have a problem

renwan · Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204

Instead of your stupid one lines, care to explain whta problem i have?

oh wait you can't.

vorteks · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject:

Renwan, : You present yourself as a nostalgic sovietic with antisemit feelings, which is your right and shows some courage to assume your opinions. If the Pope never managed to visit Russia, this isn t for not trying. One year after his election, he was already showing his will to build bridges with Orthodox, with his visit to Patriarch Demetrius I in Constantinople.

You also doubted the existance of hell, which would indicate you are not an orthodox orthodox Very Happy

. I was wondering : was all the hate you seem to feel for different confessions (jews, catholics...) professed by the Orthodox Church or is it a personal affair?

Gonzock, I never said I agreed with the abstinence speech nor that I complied, just that if a religious leader is not dogmatic on moral values, who will be? It doesnt mean that every catholic has to apply it nor should every priest preach it, depending on their own beliefs and surrouding reality.

vorteks · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject:

That last post seems to be a "copy and paste" from another forum of a poster being charged of fascism by other russians for his anti semitic views.

But when you or the original poster assumes that a majority of russians are anti semitic, he reminds me a broadcast I saw on a russian private tv show. There were two debaters, one anti semite using affective arguments, the other contradicting him, using rational arguments, and spectators could vote to tell who was the most convincing. The anti semit won by56% against 44%. The poverty and corruption in Russia in the 90s certainly explains the development of extremist cults.

This speech tho recalls how unhibited the rebirth of neo nazism in Russia can be. Even tho it is a marginal movement, neo nazis in Russia represent 40% of global neo nazis cultists(50,000 out of 120,000 worldwide).

http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=3674
http://www.rne.org/