Way to Russia Talk Lounge

DITTRICH · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: Going on holiday by car in Russia

Just come back from my trip to Russia and thought I would relate my experiences.

I bought car insurance on the Finnish side of the border at Brusnichnoye. Did not cost alot - about 40 euros for 30 days.

Border crossing on Russian side was okay except they didn't know about migration cards and did not give me one (Ha Ha see later). I got only a 2 week temporary import permit for the car in spite of my protests to give me one for the length of my visa. Did not need to give photocpies of any documents. They just looked at my Russian insurance certificate and my english car registration documents. I already have a russian driving license but took and international driving permit as well just in case. I made an ordinary customs declaration in duplicate and kept a stamped copy.

Visa registration without a migration card in moscow took a whole day. Very exhausting ans lots of pushing but eventually got a migration card from OVIR and got it stamped. result! I could have not registered at all, but since I needed to extend the temporary import certificate at Tsaritsino, I needed it.

Trip to Tsaritsino wasted a whole afternoon but everybody was quite kind and helpful. The administrator tried to infer that my migration card wasn't in order because they messed up the dates (visa to 15/9 but registered only to 30/ Cool

. Migratin card is need to extend temporary import. Car was inspected and assessed. Paid about RBL 4,000 fixed fee for good with value $5k - $10k. Received certificate. Inspectors offer to buy my car!

Got stopped by the DPS 3 times in 5 weeks. Twice for documents - all in order. Once for speeding but got let off! Cruising around was very easy as cars tended to get out of the way for the mercedes!

Disaster struck on the last day in heavy traffic in moscow when a ZIL-130 rear ended me and took out one tail light and the whole estate tailgate. DPS handed sitation very well and were really helpful and polite. Filled in accident form and exchanged details with truck driver.

At the site of accident, DPS write report. Vehciles moved of the road and everyone has to write a statement which the DPS keep. Given date to turn up at DPS office for decision. Got lots of contact phone numbers for all other drivers involved. owner of vehicle turns up with his friend ho speaks a little english. They feel guilty and give me some cash to buy a new tail light. They tried to find and buy one for me (really!) but failed.

I stop off at mercedes office in moscow and discuss car with mechanic who recommends and independant outfit who can do work at short notice. Book car in at garage same day and authorise gathering oft. spare parts needed.

Next day go to truck drivers insurance comoany to ascertain claims procedure. Everybody helpful and gives me list if stuff I need to gather.

Three days later turn up at DPS office for decision. Other driver doesn't turn up. Phoned owner of vehicle and gave my mobile to the DPS officer dealing with our case - he has words with the owner(!) After 90mins other driver appears (!). Driver admits guilt and I get some forms - protocol, prilozhenie 12 and 31 and reshenie (decision). Note protocol can only be written in the presence of all parties to the accident.

Travel to the garage. Pick up the car - not yet repaired. Drive to the insurance company and fight to get claim registered. They said english registration document and passport need cetified translations. i throw a fit in their office and the claim gets accepted (using the temporary import certificate to back up the vehicle registration) They still claim I can't collect the money in cash until I get certified passport translation but i solve this another way. I fill an application/claim form.They take the forms from the DPS and the accident form where details exchanged. they give me copies and stamp them. Allocate me a claim number. They say payment only after 15 working days. Alot of sitting around then car gets inspected. Ispector writes uo the report REALLY well. I get copy of the report. Drive back to the garage to install new part previously bought and painted. garage does job in 24 hours.

next day I give a doverenost to a relative to collect the money on my behalf using their russian passport which doesn't need a certified translation. Collect the car at 6.30pm. This is Friday - 4 days after accident, 2 days after DPS office and insurance company.
Garage owner offers to buy my car!

Next day set off for finnish border. Getting out of russia was easy. I made one customs declaration for whole family of 3 people. Customs kept the temporary import extension from Tsaritsino. Passport control didn't even ask about a migration card (kept it hidden to see if they would notice).

So that was it. Alot of hassle but my russian improved alot. Fnatastic journey through europe and back plus travelled alot in Russia. Don't let the hassle put you off this kind of thing I was unlucky and needed to stay more than 2 weeks. But for a trip of less than 2 weeks, taking a car in and out is not that difficult.

Rgds

Les

WayToRussia · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject:

Great post. I'll link to it from our Transport Guide pages. Very helpful, thanks!!!

Mr Purves · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:29 am Post subject:

I am planning to drive my wife and kids to St Petersburg from Scotland in the UK in August 2006. I have been reading with much interest the posts about driving into Russia. Can anyone tell me if you can buy insurance that covers theft? I would hate to see my car be stolen, and only have third party insurance!
Many thanks in advance,

Michael

Mr Purves · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:40 am Post subject:

Forgot to post before that we will be driving to St P to see the wife's Russian family, will be staying for 10-13 days in total, and will be going via Sweden, Finland and Finnish border. I see Dittrich, you are an expert on this area, so any advice will be very welcome. My wife is Russian, and we plan to leave our car in a locked car park area opposite my in-laws flat. Will we need to pay an import duty?

Thanks again,
M

I♥Russia · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:22 am Post subject:

Wow. This seemed to be quite a fun trip. Smile

DITTRICH · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: Mr Purves Questions

Expert?! Ha! I actually did the car trip **once** this year, although I did do the planning for 2 years her and there. I also used to work in Russia (4yrs), speak Russian and I too am married to a Russian.

Insurance. The insurance I purchased was 'third party' only. About 'including theft' I don't know. I deliberately purchased an 11yr old diesel mercedes estate - something I wasn't too attached to - so I guess I side-stepped this issue. It is impossible to buy motor insurance for Russia in the UK - it has to be done in Finland (as far as you are concerned anyway). It can't be done internationally over the phone. I saw a reference to a Finnish insurance broker on this forum on another thread - find it and follow the internet link. Theft - this depends on the car - can you afford to lose it? If not consider taking a cheaper more expendable car if this worries you. Since at the moment only Russian insurance companies can insure you there, you'd have to make a claim to a Russian insurance company to get your money back (in roubles - no international payments). I'm still waiting on my claim. My view is that you'd have difficulty getting a payout - anything remotely acceptable - ask any russian about russian insurance companies **sigh**. That's why I only bought third party and didn't research a more comprehensive policy.

**However**
Russia may soon join the 'green card' scheme which will simplify matters - maybe 2006, 2007 ish I'm not sure. Check it out though on the net and with your insurers. Remember complusory car insurance has only been around in russia for a year or two.

On the choice of car, I'd say definitely diesel. Whilst Russia has unleaded fuel, its not up to the standards of western unleaded (slightly different) or so my contacts say (I asked on the Russian Mercedes Club website).

Parking - someone else asked this question. My view is that provided you use an avtostayanka and have a modern alarm/immobiliser (and common sense) theft isn't likely to be an issue. Put yourself in the mind of a russian thief - would you steal a car with the wheel on the 'wrong' side and with foreign plates that stands out a mile and that is likely to be **really** investigated if stolen? No!

Your choice of route is good in my opinion. The journey at 2,500 miles can be done in 4.5 days (how fast do you drive?!) but with a family, a week would be better. All the scandinavian contries have speed cameras and they all look different! Also different speed limits. One thing to note. From mid June to mid August, the 'Scandic' chain of hotels have discounted rates - like 50% - and can make travelling quite cheap. Book a few days ahead and you should be okay. Note 'Scandic' are owned by Hilton but provided you travel in the off-season like I did the cost is not prohibited - you can sign up for the Hilton HHonors program which will simplify registration and earn you points for future freebies - valid across Hilton worldwide. I expect the other hotels chains in this part of the world have similar programs - so don't choose hilton just because I said so.

Fuel - check the fuel reports on the AA website - fuel can be expensive in some countries. My advice - take a 10l diesel cannister just in case.

Route - can be done all on roads / motorways. Ferries interesting and allow rest but can be expensive across the north sea. My advice - eurotunnel off-peak fares in the evening - get to France 8pm - be in Sweden by 11am the next day (driving all night). From Scotland - difficult - need hotel break. Ferries from Newcastle and Harwich. I went by eurotunnel.

Some family members may find it difficult sitting in the car for extended periods - my 5yr old was fine but my wife - another story Wink

Pay attention to information in the other posts about cars - its just about all there - and remember - I did the trip - but only once in August 2005 - so don't take it ALL as gospel - things can change.
Good Luck

Les

DITTRICH · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:34 am Post subject:

Bugger - forgot.
You mention up to 14 days in St Petersberg. Your 'temporary import certificate' will only be valid for 2 weeks (10 business days). So it might run out and you'd need to expend hassle to extend it for only a few days. My advice - drive faster and stay longer in Russia to justify the hassle with the extension. If you don't get it extended, then I don't know what would happen on the way out (when you need to give it back to them). I'm not that adventurous Laughing

Maybe just a fine but who knows. Also if the 'DPS' (road police) checked your documents and found you hadn't got it extended - maybe problem. As far as documents are concerned do EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK.
Rgds
Les

DITTRICH · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject:

You can purchase compulsory motor insurance (third party) from border.
At Nuijamaa border, you can buy insurance from Raja-Kaapa shop (300
meters before
border station on finnish side). It is open on saturdays 9.00 - 14.30,
on sundays closed.(also weekdays 0900-1700)
At Russian customs there might be possibility to buy insurances, but it
is somewhat unsure.

On finnish side nearest fuel station is in Lappeenranta town area. On
russian side first station
is about 5 kilometers from Russian customs. They are open on saturdays
and sundays.

Nuijamaa border station is open 24 h every day.

Taken from advice received from Finnish travel agents.

Les

Mr Purves · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:39 am Post subject:

Dittrich:

Many thanks for your very comprehensive replies! You have been very thorough.
As to the trip and a few things you mentioned regarding it. I have researched distances involved via route maps on the net, and the easiest way for us leaving from east of Edinburgh is to drive to Newcastle (around 90 miles) then board the DFDS ferry to Gothenburg, which incidentally we have ALREADY booked (!). This leaves Newcastle at 3pm and gets to Gothenburg at 5pm next day. From there it's a drive across Sweden to Stockholm of around 470km, or 293 miles, of which 245 miles is motorway. This journey will require an overnight stop on route, and should be possible in 6hours or so fairly easily at a sedate pace.
The next ferry is Stockholm to Helsinki, departs Stockholm 7pm and arrives next morning in Helsinki at 9.30 ish.

From Helsinki, I believe it's around 394kms to centre of St Petersburg, or 244 miiles, but I wouldn't like to make an estimate for the total time for this part of the journey. In fact my in-laws stay in basically the very first apartment block you come to on the main road in from Helsinki (and this is significant later).

So, as you can see, the total driving distance is only about 637 miles once we have reached Newcastle. With this in mind, I plan to do the journey in three days flat, with one overnight hotel stop in Sweden. Many thanks for your ideas re hotels to stay in there.

As I said, the DFDS ferries are already booked. The total time spent in St Petersburg will actually be no more than 11 days maximum. I can't finalise the Stockholm- Helsinki ferries just yet, as the fares for next summer are not yet available.

Now back to the car. My car is only 6 months old at present, which was why I had asked about theft insurance. I am going to have to look very carefully at the options here. OK, it's not an expensive BMW or Merc, but only a Skoda Octavia. Nonetheless to have it stolen would be financially disastrous. However, that's where the positioning of my in-laws' flat might just be to our advantage. We have flown many times, and have survived on public transport fine (indeed I quite enjoy all the trams, trains, trolley-buses etc) so it's very possible that if we do take our car, it would be used solely to get us there, then left locked up till we leave again. Of course I had hoped to use it to visit the dacha in the country, as that journey would certainly be much easier by car, but needs must.

Anyway, I will look at maybe a cheaper possibly expendible car.

Thanks again for all the great advice. I'd be interested in your views on my plans.

Michael

DITTRICH · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:18 am Post subject:

Your plan seems sound to me.

I don't think it will be necessary to lock your car up - use it. There are plenty of places to go around StP which would be nice to see and are much more accessible by car.

Get your relatives to check out the consequences of NOT extending the temporary import certificate beyond 10 working days. Maybe the fine on exiting russia is less than the cost of the extension? This is the only part of your plan which needs to be thought through. As I said, being stopped without a valid 't.i.c' by the DPS (dorozhni patrolni sloozhba) isn't something I'd risk - though maybe if you stay for only 10-11days then the 10 business days might be enough. Certainly the customs assessed value of a 6 month old skoda is going to be quite high and extending your t.i.c. might be expensive. I guess it boils down to what may happen if you get stopped and you don't have a valid t.i.c. extension.

If you do buy a second cheaper car for the trip, buy it in plenty of time and drive it about a bit (and several longer trips 200m+) so any faults can manifest themselves. Do servicing before you go - a good checking over. Get European breakdown insurance (not valid in russia). Get addresses of VW/Skoda dealers in StP in case of need.

Let us know your ferry experiences as I decided to drive the whole way just to see what it was like. Feedback onto this forum (especially when things go wrong) is valued as when I first started asking questions there was almost no information. Then in response to my questions (I think) the WTR site expanded the bit about car transport.

Whilst the Stockholm - Helsinko ferries are cheap, the DFDS north sea ferry seemed expensive - high season 4 people £600+ if I recall - though early booking would save 30%? - and nectar cards used to (still do?) have a deal with DFDS.

I guarantee you and your family will enjoy this adventure.
Next year, I'm thinking of taking the ferry to Bergen and going to Russia via Norway and Murmansk.

Les

Mr Purves · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject:

Les:

Thank you again for your advice, it's much appreciated. When I thought about this trip the first time a few years back, it seemed that it would be totally into the unknown, so to get such good feedback from a recent trip into Russia along at least part of the same route is extremely welcome and valuable. (My wife has always been keener on flying, but has really come round, and that's in no small measure down to your advice!)
As to ferry costs, our original plan for 2006 was France via Superfast ferry from Edinburgh to Zeebrugge, but Superfast want an incredible £724 for the dates we would be going. So, DFDS'd fare of £480 (with £65 reduction for being AA covered) seemed reasonable.
Can you recall the fare for the Helsinki ferry from Stockholm? Did you use Silja or Viking and how did you find them?
I have had a price of £300 quoted based on this July, so next year's shouldn't be TOO much more I hope...(that was with Silja Line)

Can you clarify this customs assessment thing about the value of the car for me? How does this work? Will they be able to put an accurate figure on its value by looking it over?

Finally, before I sign out, is your wife from Moscow? And I take it you live in the UK at the moment?

Cheers again,
Michael

Mr Purves · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:42 pm Post subject:

Forgot to add: Wow!! Bergen to Russia via Murmansk! Now that would be some trip...

Mr Purves · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject:

Forgot to add: Wow!! Bergen to Russia via Murmansk! Now that would be some trip...

DITTRICH · Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: Questions! - Questions!

Dear Michael

As regards ferry prices between Finland and Stockholm, I'm not really sure as when I said I drove all the way - I really meant it! Via Haparanda and Tornio at the top end. Denmark - Sweden using the big bridge.
Hmm £480 - Eurotunnel, one day's driving and a hotel don't come to £480 but I see the attraction not putting miles on the new car. Mine has already done 187,000 so not really an issue for me!

The ferries on this route are supposed to be cheap because of some 'duty free' deal concerning some islands in the baltic sea. You'll just have to search the net a bit. I did have a look at ferries between Turku and Stockholm for the way back but were all fully booked. Sorry don't have to hand any websites - use google search engine.

Customs.
Getting into the country across the border with your 10 working day t.i.c. is free. The extension is not free. The customs have their own 'car book' from which they look up values - ie once they have your car details, the value is found by looking at the book. For example, my 1994 W124 E300 diesel estate mercedes was about US$7,500 which fell into the $5,000-$10,000 bracket which has a fixed fee + inspection charges. So, my point is someone in russia will probably have to go to the relevant customs office in StP with full details of your car in order to understand what the cost are likely to be. Trying to do this over the phone in russian isn't going to work because the customs can be a real pain in the ass. Even the people who work there admit this (sometimes). My view is that the customs value of your vehicle is somewhere between US$15,000 and US$25,000 - ie alot and extending the t.i.c. might be very expensive for you. Another reason to use an older less valuable car. If you enter russia on saturday, then your t.i.c would be valid until the 2nd friday = 16 calendar days - maybe t.i.c extension not necessary.

I have just had a thought. Since your wife is a citizen of the RF, if the car was in her name on the V5 and she has UK/Russian driving license then there may be a way for her to do all this without being stung for customs duties. I suggest you look at www.customs.ru - the russian version and do some reading. I seem to remember that RF citizens 'who are permanently resident' in russia can import a car 'free'. Quite how all this is achieved - I can't say - maybe you will have to be a bit creative but check it out. In my case, I made the trip alone going and with my family coming back - so I needed to do everything in my name.

Finally, yes, I am in the UK and my wife is from Moscow.

Regards

Les

Mr Purves · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: Questions questions!!

Hello again Les,

Oh dear. I'm hoping you are not going to be too upset at the number of questions I'm asking, daily...but I have been looking back over earlier posts/threads, and spotted a post you made asking a number of important questions.

Quote:
Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:12 pm Post subject: Travelling by Car Finland - Russia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A series of general questions about the formalities of taking my own car into russia and driving it about. Don't worry, it not an expensive one!

1Documents I think I need - is the list correct?
Car Registration document - original - proving car is mine.
Third party russian insurance contract - original - probably ingostrakh
Foreign Driving License card - Original
International Driving License? card - Original
Russian visa (izveshenie - private visa) ?

2 For which of the above documents do I need a certified translation into russian. I have found contradictory advice on the internet so need clarification.
Does the russian consulate in London provide this service?

3 Does my car registration number have to be stated on my visa?

7 There are some stories on the net about the safety of the highway between Viborg and st petersberg - is this something I need to worry about?

Unquote:

I have deleted bits that don't really apply.

However, I wonder if you can clarify the bits that are left there. Of course, I'm asking lots I know, and as you know I don't need these urgently, so please don't feel under any pressure to reply quickly. As you appreciate yourself, like you, I want to be absolutely clear and sure in my mind of exactly what we need to have prepared.

We have been looking carefully at the actual dates we will be in the country. We'll arrive on a Thursday and leave again on the Monday morning 11 days later. That makes in total 8 business days including the arrival and departure dates. I am assuming that there will be no probs with the t.i.c. therefore. We plan to spend a few days in Finland and Sweden on the return journey.

As to my wife, she has not got either a Russian or a UK driving license, so the driving will all be down to me. Thanks though for your suggestions regarding having the car registered in her name, but as you can see, this would only complicate things!

I can only imagine that you were yourself very excited about your trip, looking back over your earlier requests and posts before you went. You certainly put a lot of time and thought into it all. I hope to get things right too. And I'm certainly looking forward to it all very much already. The mileages you covered are quite staggering...did you not find the total cost quite expensive with fuel costs and stops all added up? In our case, we have young children, so at the moment at least, that drove the ideas for how we planned to execute the route. ie get there as directly and as quickly as possible!

Regards

Michael