Way to Russia Talk Lounge

Entropy · WayToRussified Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 429

Hi,

I am curious about how life has changed in the cities of Ekaterinburg and Irkutsk during the last five years or so. Are these cities experiencing rapid growth and opportunities with the boom in commodities? Is their future bright? Etc.

In the media I read and hear two divergent stories. Negative: Average income remains low, corruption rampant, alcholism, and other negative stereotypes. On the positive, I hear that Russia is booming with oil revenues and that life has gotten much better.

I suspect that the truth is somewhere in between. I have tried searching the net but haven't found much reliable information. I suspect Russia has changed a lot during the last ten years.

I realize this is a rather open ended question. So I would appreciate if you could provide a few sample wages (professionals and non-professionals) and some anecdotes about about how the average person views his or her life while in their late 20s to early 40s. I am not looking for a long detailed answer. Rather I would like some comments from those who live or who have traveled through those two cities recently.

Thank you for any helpful comments you may provide. Smile

Entropy

Entropy · WayToRussified Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 429

Hi,

I would appreciate any comments on my prior post.

Moderators, if this post would be better in another section, please move it for me.

Thank you all.

Entropy

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

You won't find too many people on this forum that know enough about those 2 cities to provide a meaningful feedback, I think. I may be wrong, though

Entropy · WayToRussified Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 429

MrSpice,

Thank you for replying.

I thought Ekaterinburg, which I believe is Russia's third largest city, would have lots of commentary. Perhaps in this forum, those two cities are not well represented.

So let's change the question then to any city within Russia. I am guessing that Moscow and St. Petersburg are different from the "average" Russian city in that they are more affluent. I don't want to ask too many questions in one thread, but I am curious if different regions within Russia are experiencing vastly different circumstances.

Again, thank you MrSpice for responding.

Entropy

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Yes, I believe you guessed correctly. Moscow is where the money is. The difference between Moscow and some average-sized russian city would be apparent to any traveller. Moscow is filled with shops, supermarkets, luxurious cars, cafes, etc. A lot of new constructions is happening in Moscow. There are many banks and other financial institutions that are opening up and growing in the city. It's a place where a lot of oil money end up. St Peterburg is visibly poorer but wealthier than smaller cities. Real estate prices in Moscow are out of control. Salaries and income are higher in Moscow than in St Petersburg, sometimes by 25-50% percent and are much higher than in some small cities.

I visited St Peterburg last summer for the first time in 10.5 years. The city has changed for the better- at least for those with money. There are many restaurants. The center is much more developer and is much cleaner than before. There's a variety of small/boutique hotels with good service and decent prices. The roads in the center are better now. Many people have cell phones. Internegt cafes are abundant.

CrazyArcher · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject:

My gradma has visited russia last summer, and she said that's exactly what had happened during the last few years. Russia has become better, but only for those with money. Most people live as usual - trying to make the end meet.
That's what can be said about Perm (which is much like Ekaterinurg and other large cities in many aspects). The conditions in Moskow are far better, of course, but we shouldnt make conclusions about Russia in general with Moskow in mind. Personally I consider Russia and Moskow two separate entities.

Albert_RTForum · Just Starting Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 3 Location: Ufa

I live in Russian Federation in a town situated in approx. 500 km. from Ekaterinburg. I am sure that the sitatation is the same there and in my place (next to Ufa - capital of Bashkortostan).
You are right - Russia really has changed a lot during the last ten years and "the truth is somewhere in between". In general I could sign a Big Plus for the situation in our region for the past several years. Business is growing up, people mark high activity in buying (I hope you understand me Smile

- couldn't say better) etc.
If you need more detailed comments or answers - you are wellcome. But a quession to you, Entropy, - why are you interested in these topics?

With best regards, Albert.

KHARKOV · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject:

Entropy, try Ekaterinburg.tv. Great site. On the left hand site see Links. follow links to 1723.ru. That is an excellent site for E-burg. They show a lot of pictures from the past and current.

Frankly, its a city that is growing. Lot of construction going on. Money is there, however, only a few have big money. The hotels are priced like in the US. Nothing inexpensive in that regard. It is potentiallly the 3rd largest city in Russia. However, it does represent IMHO true Russia as it is today. Moscow is getting bad. Even Russian people I know say its the case. Peterburg is touristy.

I was there in August for about a week. Had a great time.

Entropy · WayToRussified Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 429

Hi Albert,

You write very well.

To answer your question--why am I interested?

Ekaterinburg: I had a friend that I met in Orkut (Google's online social thing) and we corresponded for several months. She didn't talk much about Ekaterinburg, but I did learn some things about it. Even though our friendship ceased, my curiousity remains.

Not that it matters to this conversation, I ended the friendship. We had some differences in our communication and I felt it better that we go our separate directions. I have a lot of respect and admiration for her and have nothing bad to say. Sometimes, some people are not meant to be friends.

I had been under the impression the average wage in Russia was about US$300 per month. Yet, her family seemed reasonably well off. She is in her late 20s getting her PhD in Economics and her brother is in second year university. Both have their own cars, her car is a Lada, his is a Nissan.

Their lives seem comfortable, unlike the stories that I had heard about Russia. I didn't get the impression that they were well off, as her brother loves the US but goes to school in Russia. If they were wealthy, I am sure he would be in the US. (I am a Canadian of Ukrainian heritage.)

Prior to meeting her, I was completely unaware of Ekaterinburg.

Irkutsk: I assisted a person online with an Microsoft Excel problem one day, and we have been corresponding for about one year. Our conversations are usually about politics and how Russia views the situation and how the west views the same situation. It makes for some lively discussions, and I think we are both learning from each other.

--------

I had also read a book by Jim Rogers, a famous hedge fund manager who traveled around the world once by motorbikes (he and his then girlfriend) and then ten years later (new girlfriend and soon to be wife) by car at the turn of the century. He doesn't speak well of Russia. So I was curious if things had changed dramatically during the last ten years or so.

--------

Albert, back to you. Are you optimistic for your future? Do you see much potential? Are people happier now than before? Are wages quickly escalating? Can you give me some examples?

I know that Ekaterinburg, crime was (still is) a big issue. Any comments?

Regards,
Entropy

Entropy · WayToRussified Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 429

Kharkov,

Thank you very much for the link. I was unable to find 1723.ru link that you mentioned from ekaterinburg.tv.

I saw a lot of pics of Ekaterinburg from Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/ekaterinburg/

When you mention that only a few have big money, does that mean that there number of super wealthy is few. Or does that mean the middle class is just beginning?

What were your impression of the average person from Ekaterinburg? Optimistic? Opportunities? Whatever you can share.

Thank you.

Entropy

Ekaterina · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:06 am Post subject:

Entropy,
There is middle class in Ekaterinburg as in every big city and most people belong to it. After Soviet Union collapse people are not optimistic about their future any more. Young people after graduation are likely to find a job for 300$ what is not too bad to live there but not enough to support the family.

Entropy · WayToRussified Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 429

Ekaterina,

Thank you very much for your answer. It goes to the heart of my curiousity.

Before discussing further, I would like to explain what I mean by "middle class." Middle class, to me, means living comfortably. You are not wealthy, per se, but you enjoy a comfortable lifestyle. You go out frequently, see movies, enjoy vacations, live the typical lifestyle. In some countries, most people live in poverty--say some countries in Central America--and so there is no middle class, or the middle class is very small as most people live in the lower class or poverty class.

Why I find your response so interesting is that from some of the photos that I've seen and from other's comments, there is a lot of construction taking place. One can count several building cranes. So with the oil boom and construction boom, intuitively I would have thought life in Ekaterinburg was getting much better.

I know my friend in Ekaterinburg was happy with her lifestyle. She believed Russia was doing well and would prosper. She enjoyed going out frequently, and skied on most weekends. Yet, I also know that she didn't have a cell phone and that she was sensitive about how much Internet time she used because of overcharges. But with her attention to costs, I can guess that money is still a concern.

Thank you Ekaterina for your comments. I found them interesting, especially that university graduates will only earn $300 per month and will have difficulty raising family.

Entropy

Ekaterina · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject:

Entropy,
I mean the same writing about middle class and people who earn 300$ per month there definitely belong to it. The prices in Russia are much lower than in your country and in Ekateriburg they are lower than in Moscow and St.P. so people enjoy their life having 300$. It is my brother who live there and earn 300$ after graduation, he has good two rooms apartment, a car and motorcycles and build a cottage outside of the city. Can you say he is poor? It is the nature of people that they always want to have more.
Mobile phones are very cheap so your friend doesn't have it not because of problems with money. Iternet access is cheap as well.
Another situation is in the countryside where people are really very poor. I was really shocked when we visited our distant relatives who live in a village in Sverdlovsk region. They don't complain and just live traditional style of life like 100 years ago.
During Soviet time when we studied at Universities we knew in advance what job we would get after graduation, what money we would earn and it was stable life and stable country. Now nobody can predict if you will make your career or the company you work for will go bankrupt and you will loose your job. Now Russian people live well only because of very high price on oil and I can't imagine what will be here if it goes down because we produce almost nothing.

vitalsigns · Lounge Wizard Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 2784

I do not think there's a middle class per se in the RF. A middle class suggests a large layer of society that live in that life-style. Half a million graduates that make a fairly decent living is not middle class.

Albert_RTForum · Just Starting Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 3 Location: Ufa

Hello, Entropy.
What for happiness, optimism - you are probably think of Russian Federation using pictures from mass media.
In general it is black colors and you ask - how people can live there at all? Media "washes minds" (hope you understand me:)), whenewer you live. I can say this becouse from time to time read main foreign newspapares.
Somebody happy Smile

, somebody in trouble Sad

I suppose, that is not matter of only money or even country.
Example: US is very rich but do you thing they will be Ok if they don't change direction of their politics?

Do you see much potential?
Yes, markets are growing up - real estate, services (I am an IT professional - automatization of business) for example.

Best regards, Albert.