Way to Russia Talk Lounge

cyndy22 · Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: Raising Children

Another thing that disturbs me in the US, is that parents over schedule their children. Many kids have extremely busy little lives. They go from school, to after school programs, soccer, basketball, swim team, scouts, music lessonsand it doesn't stop on weekends or summer vacation. While I think parents want to know where their children are and what they are up to, a great degree of free play for children is slipping away. I don't think that children should have such busy lives and also benefit from playing with other children, making choices about what they want to do together etc. I am not saying that enrolling a child in a sports or other program is bad. Do their lives really need so much programming? Is this happening in Russia and other countries?

Katyara · Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject:

oh believe me some kids' lives are planned from minute to minute. those are usually kids of the wealthy parents.

cyndy22 · Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject:

In the states, I would say that the majority of middle income families seem to encourage their children to get involved in numerous organized activities. It is not this way with lower income families because of course everything costs money. And parents are very involved in many of their children's activities. Sometimes in fact it is the parents who seem to care more about the activity than the child.

This also relates to lack of freedom in children's lives. People may laugh at the idea of thinking that children need freedom. Perhaps that is not the best descriptive word but children do need to play in environments where they have unstructered activities as well. As Only, one of our newest members stated, children need to develop skills for independent thinking, learn how to ask for help, be responsible etc. And I think kids need to learn how to solve problems particularly conflicts that arise with their peers. This happens best in free play and not in organized activities where there are adult instructors and parents who step in to intervene.

Vorteks, I was pleased to hear that you encountered some very kind and trusting Americans when you were touring the states in 93 on your motorcycle. Not all US citizens are paranoid. I myself because of my disability am often finding myself in a situation where I could really use some help. I don't think I have ever been refused when I asked for assistance from strangers. Actually, I think often strangers feel really good about helping other strangers. It brings us face to face with our humanity and is a humbling experience for both parties. Vorteks, your parents raised you well!

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

This reminds me of the scene in The Hunt for the Red October, you know that crappy Tom Clancy thriller, where the captured Russian submarine crew and Jack Ryan watch "E.T" together. And one of the Russians asks Jack Ryan if all American kids act with so much svobodno and Jack Ryan says well they live in California and everybody there is nuts but yeah, American parents usually want their children to be more independent than Russian parents.

So funny how you suggest the exact the opposite.

cyndy22 · Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject:

I didn't see the movie but know that Hollywood is not exactly on the mark when it comes to showing real issues. Over protection, over indulgence, and over scheduling are serious concerns in the US, regarding parents and children. I take the view that childhood is a precious time in a person's life. It distresses me to see so many children being pushed in so many directions and taking life so seriously. And being given a silver spoon. I admit that it is easy to spoil our children if we have the means. But the important things in life are not materialistic, and as children grow and mature, they will make choices based on their interests and not others so much. There is plenty of time in life to pursue all sorts of things. Why do we need to be in such a hurry for our children? When I think back to my childhood the best times were street play, outdoors play- making forts in the woods, outdoor games, sledding, spending the whole day outdoors with neighbor friends, etc. When I got to be 10 or so, I got involved in organized softball and tennis and sure it was fun. But I would not want to sacrifice my childhood free play at the expense of just being involved in organized activities.

blaked · Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject:

Yeah and half of the stuff that we were made to do was utterly stupid nonsense, like sports. I was placed in soccer and half a dozen other sports after school, and I hated sports! I'm not going to be a sports hero and I hate teams! Until I started skiing I had no use for any sports at all, except maybe hiking. Alone. Scouting was also stupid, although I was lucky enough to get kicked out for using the word 'fuck' when I was about 8. Another two were piano and choir. I don't think either one did me any good at all in my life. I volunteered at a nursing home when I was 15 or so - complete and utter waste of time, dittos for church and all church related activities. I remember pleading to my shrink (oh there's another one - kids have shrinks and are over-medicated) that all I wanted out of life was to get laid - that I would conform to any dumb social standard up to and including listening to hip hop and/or metal in order to be able to put it in. Nothing helped. If I had a kid, I'd try to make him happy - I'd give him unrestricted internet access and would only have him participate in useful activities such as learning Russian and MS Word/Excel.

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

Cyndy is a social worker (?) and a mother and I'm neither so I shouldn't be talking but I've always admired that type of overacheiving American kid that can juggle sports, chores, church, friends, dance class, a job, after-school activities and still get A+ grades.And make it look effortless.And later as an adolescent, find time for all that plus SAT courses, a boyfriend, charity work, all while looking like a million dollars. How do those kids do it.And you won't hear a pipsqueak out of them; they seem to truly enjoy it.

Not that I'm going to raise my kids that way.If I had a children, I'd keep them out of school till age seven, take them to the movies and bookstores, teach them all I know about computers, teach them Spanish, read them the newspaper and play them hip-hop and rap or whatever will be popular then so they won't be clueless and out of it around kids their own age. Very Happy

Yeah, it's really tempting to spoil children if you hyave the financial means to do so but it'll likely create nothing but problems for them when they go out into the real world.

One thing parents should never do, that they have been doing since forever is to try to live through their offspring.Instead of just accepting your children for the miserable failures and deadbeats they are. Very Happy

vorteks · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:

I thought the problem in the US was less the lack of free time for kids but for parents. In an environment where acumulating wealth is a common cultural value and goal, and so much energy is spent to achieve this goal by both parents to conform to social standards, which room is left for the family well being?

I remember seeing a broadcast about a small township in the US where a syphilis contagion spread amongst youngsters, sometimes very young. Usually such sexual illnesses choose developing countries, often with a very active sex business and poor sanitary conditions, which is not the case in the US.

The conclusion of the (french) boradcast was that the kids were just bored, aimless, with no ethical references. The parents were so busy securing their material needs,accumulating responsabilities out of their home, they just couldnt afford to secure...their affect and structure their mind. They just got into unprotected sex with multiple partners as a casual social activity, like others would play card games or get involved in sport.

From an american point of view, this could be seen as a caricatural view of the american reality. Your comments are welcome.

cyndy22 · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:40 am Post subject:

Blaked,
I loved your post. It made me smile because my son, Alex is like you. Last year in 1st grade, I got a note from his teacher telling me that Alex said the word fuck. Now mind you, at that time Alex was attending a Catholic parochial school. The teacher even spelled out fuck! He is back at public school again but it wasn't just because of saying the f word. Alex is an individual. Unlike most kids his age, he tells us he hates sports. Even on gym days, he seems to get into a little trouble. He is also not into teams. While I have to admit that I would prefer him to like atleast one sport, and my husband would like him to love all sports, Alex is Alex. It is interesting to me that at age 7, he has already made some type of decision that he hates sports. My husband and I both participate in some seasonal sports or outdoor related activities. So Alex has attended some of these activities. While he has had some fun attending and doing such things as camping, kick sledding and swimming, he just does not have interest in sports or many outdoor recreation activities. He does play outside with his friends but he still prefers indoor activities. This is totally the opposite of what I was like as a child. I figure at 7, he has PLENTY of time to explore his world and interests. He would me miserable if we made him go to soccer, basketball, and other sports.

cyndy22 · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:50 am Post subject:

Jutrzenkapolska,
I really don't think there are too many American kids who can successfully juggle everything as you suggested. There are some, sure. My sister was one. That was her choice. But my view is that kids should not have to juggle so much. You miss out on things in life when you are too focused.

Vorteks,
You're right, parents are so busy working to spend money on so much crap and save as well. Plus many parents are also way over extended in their time. I know many families that do not even share a meal together on a regular basis. Sad.

kiwiguy_os · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:56 am Post subject:

mediashark · Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1601

I had a busy but meaningless life as a child and teenager and I loath my childhood.

I'm considerably a better person without my parents around who are interested in everything else I do but me.

I made it into the school tennis team (we won that year) although I hated sports.
I aced mathematics and the sciences though I knew I just had no knack for it and I just hated math...
Extra tuition and classes ate up all the rest of my time I wanted to spend writing, drawing and painting, reading etc.
My parents destroyed or deprived me of my hobbies, like trashing the rock collection that took years to accumulate, taking away my art materials etc.
They distrusted and dispised my Russian (then-)boyfriend. (the final straw)
I got into drinking...

I ran off to Moscow (while they did everything to stop me) to salvage the last 2 years of my teenage life. The best decision I've made. I never had to drink again. Maybe my folks still mean something to me because they have the authority of something over me but I've never been able to say I truly love them for several years.

Regarding sports--it was fun until it got competitive. But I rather relax indoors unless it's something I regard interesting like camping, skating, skiing or riding.

p.s. I believe the ET scene in Red October was only featured in the novel, not the movie.

cyndy22 · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject:

Mediashark,
I am sorry you were pushed so hard as a child and teenager. Your situation is a good example of the point I was trying to make. It's only natural for children to become rebellious when they continually are forced to do things they have no interest in, or be someone they are not. Do you think your parents understand how youy feel now? You don't have to answer, it was more of a question for you to think about.

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

Yeah I was going to say "the book, not the movie".

I have question for everyone:what do you think of corporal punishment for children?Would/ do you hit your kids?Were you smacked as a child?(actually, don't answer that)

vorteks · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:34 am Post subject:

As a child, I did spend a few times on my knees with hands on the head in a corner of the house. I think this was a clever way to sanction the child, since it IS unpleasant, while not affecting the childs self confidence.

Beating the child can have traumatic psychological consequences, and is often more motivated by the parent s nervosity than by a real will to educate the child.