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carlos23
Just Starting
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 8
Location: york, united kingdom
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 Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Soviet Tyranny in the 70s and 80s |
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Back in the 70s and 80s did most of the russian people mainly in leningrad, stalingrad and moscow want the soviet goverment in power or were young russian people capitalists deep down ? .  |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3436
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Soviet Tyranny in the 70s and 80s |
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| carlos23 wrote: | | Back in the 70s and 80s did most of the russian people mainly in leningrad, stalingrad and moscow want the soviet goverment in power or were young russian people capitalists deep down ? . |
First of all, we did not have that much information about capitalism. Most of the programs on TV as well as what we heard frmo teachers in schools and professors at universities told us that capitalist system was evil. The works on Lenin and Marx were obligatory and were included in any educational program. However, people were not very happy about the "great socialist system" simply because it lead to shortages of everything. The system was closed - people could not travel abroad. Live was at best decent, but mostly hard. Salaries were low. There was very little night life and having a decent meal or visiting a restaurant was a privilege. So, people got disenchanted with the regime and at least privately, there were many jokes about the current leaders. People did not take a lot of propaganda seriously. And capitalism to a certain extent existed - just unoficially. Directors of stores sold things on the black market for bribes. There were some flea markets that police frequently raided where people sold merchindize to make a profit. Everything changed in the 80s where people started to get more information about the west and started to aslo travel to the western countries. And the wall came down in Berlin. Some people started to be involved in business and it went from there. |
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carlos23
Just Starting
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 8
Location: york, united kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Soviet Tyranny in the 70s and 80s |
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| MrSpice wrote: | | carlos23 wrote: | | Back in the 70s and 80s did most of the russian people mainly in leningrad, stalingrad and moscow want the soviet goverment in power or were young russian people capitalists deep down ? . |
First of all, we did not have that much information about capitalism. Most of the programs on TV as well as what we heard frmo teachers in schools and professors at universities told us that capitalist system was evil. The works on Lenin and Marx were obligatory and were included in any educational program. However, people were not very happy about the "great socialist system" simply because it lead to shortages of everything. The system was closed - people could not travel abroad. Live was at best decent, but mostly hard. Salaries were low. There was very little night life and having a decent meal or visiting a restaurant was a privilege. So, people got disenchanted with the regime and at least privately, there were many jokes about the current leaders. People did not take a lot of propaganda seriously. And capitalism to a certain extent existed - just unoficially. Directors of stores sold things on the black market for bribes. There were some flea markets that police frequently raided where people sold merchindize to make a profit. Everything changed in the 80s where people started to get more information about the west and started to aslo travel to the western countries. And the wall came down in Berlin. Some people started to be involved in business and it went from there. |
They told you our capitalist system was evil when they were murdering people in gulags in siberia and banning under pain of death the worshiping of the orthodox christian faith . sounds like a living hell , you guys should have revolted or atleast rioted in moscow and dragged them out of their evil bolshevic power house in the kremlin or even blown it up when they were having one of their meetings. |
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Crabman
WayToRussified
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Middlesex
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Soviet Tyranny in the 70s and 80s |
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| carlos23 wrote: |
They told you our capitalist system was evil when they were murdering people in gulags in siberia and banning under pain of death the worshiping of the orthodox christian faith . sounds like a living hell , you guys should have revolted or atleast rioted in moscow and dragged them out of their evil bolshevic power house in the kremlin or even blown it up when they were having one of their meetings. |
I suppose that you are particularly pleased with your government. A government that:
(1) Is anti-capitalist.
(2) Oppresses the citizens of N. Ireland and has been responsible for the murders of countless members of the (Catholic) Christian faith.
(3) Supports the immoral, rascist wars being waged by the United States.
(4) Maintains an oppressive tax policy for the support of a few, highly inbred members of a "puppet" monarchy and aristocracy.
To paraphrase you, ..sounds like a living hell , you guys should have revolted or at least rioted in (London) and dragged them out of their evil (aristocratic) power house in the (Parliament) or even blown it up when they were having one of their meetings...
Talk is cheap, ain't it?! |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3436
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Soviet Tyranny in the 70s and 80s |
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| carlos23 wrote: |
They told you our capitalist system was evil when they were murdering people in gulags in siberia and banning under pain of death the worshiping of the orthodox christian faith . sounds like a living hell , you guys should have revolted or atleast rioted in moscow and dragged them out of their evil bolshevic power house in the kremlin or even blown it up when they were having one of their meetings. |
I think you are somwhat confused about this period in history. During the 80s, there were no Gulags (at least not on a large scale), and it did not feel like living hell. In some ways, people lived OK. There were no homeless, most people had enough food not to be hungry and in the summer, people went to their "dachas" to relax (and many people did have summer homes - they were not really privately owned, but for all intents and purposes they were). You have to understand that most people just live day to day in any country. There was not enough dissatisfaction for any kind of revolt. And it was not obvious what would happen and how the lives of people would get any better if people were to revolt. |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1601
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Granted, there will always be a group of people who feel very strongly about politics and will be unhappy (given the kind of government) and try to push change.
What happened in the 80s was the Gorby made a series of badly-managed reforms that essentially undermined his position and govermnent. Communism needs a very strong government rule, once that is gone, it leaves it vulnerable for a takeover.
And it only takes a few well-placed individuals to tip the scale just a little bit before things come in place... to fall apart.
Well I am no expert in that period of history either, but I hope that managed to sum things up a little.
What is scary is that all that "bad capatalist pig" stuff Russians were told came true to life in the 90s and today. It's not too hard to find a somewhat successful "businessman" to act like what they were taught that capitalists should act in their school days... |
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5_Zvehzda
Moderator
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 347
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| mediashark wrote: |
What is scary is that all that "bad capatalist pig" stuff Russians were told came true to life in the 90s and today. It's not too hard to find a somewhat successful "businessman" to act like what they were taught that capitalists should act in their school days... |
But what are the perceptions – or reactions, toward an actual successful businessman in Russia who really makes a conscience effort to manage an equitable work environment with competitive wages, good benefits, personal flexibility, and the prospect of professional growth (promotions) in the workplace? |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1601
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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My, being optimistic are we? 
The only thing that really changed is that young people (mostly guys nowadays do see having a successful business or career as an idea of what a successful person should be.
Russian businesses are tumbling somewhat clumsily into what you described... I have yet to seen it commonplace in a "pure/real" Russian company. |
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carlos23
Just Starting
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 8
Location: york, united kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Soviet Tyranny in the 70s and 80s |
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| Crabman wrote: | | carlos23 wrote: |
They told you our capitalist system was evil when they were murdering people in gulags in siberia and banning under pain of death the worshiping of the orthodox christian faith . sounds like a living hell , you guys should have revolted or atleast rioted in moscow and dragged them out of their evil bolshevic power house in the kremlin or even blown it up when they were having one of their meetings. |
I suppose that you are particularly pleased with your government. A government that:
(1) Is anti-capitalist.
(2) Oppresses the citizens of N. Ireland and has been responsible for the murders of countless members of the (Catholic) Christian faith.
(3) Supports the immoral, rascist wars being waged by the United States.
(4) Maintains an oppressive tax policy for the support of a few, highly inbred members of a "puppet" monarchy and aristocracy.
To paraphrase you, ..sounds like a living hell , you guys should have revolted or at least rioted in (London) and dragged them out of their evil (aristocratic) power house in the (Parliament) or even blown it up when they were having one of their meetings...
Talk is cheap, ain't it?! |
First I dont like blair nor support his supression of northern ireland, secondly I hate blairs socalist anti gun system and high tax oppression, thirdly I dont support the american abuse and genocide in iraq, fourthly I deeply hate the monachy I am a life long republican and the monachy we have isnt even descended from our native anglo saxon people, they are descended from norman invaders who were from france and dont even ask me how much I hate westminster since its totally controlled by the monachy.
I belive in capitalism as it repects personal rights,intellectuals and christian religion, from what I know of communism it is entirely anti christ aiming. you guys overthrew your tsar in 1917 mainly because unlike half descent western monachs your tsar was a total bastard who was starving your people to death and also because you were seen as serfs by him, so its no surprise to me that bolshevics won the civil war that followed and controlled your country however brutally up till 1991 .
I belive in American style freedom in the form of its constitution , although I admit it doesnt make a good image of itself when it elects a lunatic like bush into power who invades arab countries for oil |
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