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CarlSpackler
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Highway 101
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 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | Well you responded to my post where I stated our presence is no where near what it was. I too have military experience and there for you and I both know that it is totally different way to travel being in the military. And I am sure you do not know anyone who has traveled to Afghanistan for the sake of just seeing the place. You are right it is not peachy there...never has been and I never stated that it was. And by the way the Kite Runner is a true account writing-it's not fictional. Thank you for correcting my spelling...but it's quite obvious that you are not familiar with Afghanistan...I received my info from the Afghanis...and by the way have had some good friends from there. I too am from the Bay Area and was born and raise there and will be there tomorrow...
| Quote: | | because America as a State and some of it’s citizens, like yourself, trying to shove down everyone’s throat that American way is the only way to go. I made my choice, but I don’t wear blinders and I don’t push it on others. |
Well first off I am not trying to change the world...but I do get tired of the America trashing that goes on...from people who haven't experienced enough to truly have a valid opinion. These are old topics on this site. I will be the first one to Say: America is not the only way to go...and if one doesn't like it here then don't come here, don't take our charity, and speak no more of us. Enjoy the world, there is a lot out there...not just the USA. And the world is an interesting place...and it's because there is so much variety out there.
So living in San Francisco you should know what it is that is great about our society and people...so then you should understand why I would defend this place. You are a recent immigrant then if you are ex russian and really how can you be ex russian? And why did you chose to live in the USA? If there are better places shouldn't you have gone there? Or not have left from which you came? Why did you make a choice? |
Why so many questions?…, the way you pass judgment and conclusions, it seemed you know me.
If you take upon yourself “defending” America from all the bashing, you should be much better prepared, because frankly, so far, your “defending” does more harm than good. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not here to do harm or good...read my posts-I've stated many times: If you don't like the U.S. then don't live here, or accept our offerings. I went to Russia...with an open mind and I saw a lot of good and a lot of bad. Same as here in the U.S. but I don't hate Russia and I don't go and preach change for it. And if I live there I certainly would abide by russian ways. I mean here you are living in the U.S. taking in all that we have here and living with some of the highest standards of living in the world and then you ridicule me for defending that...sorry but I see a lot of wrong to your thinking. But the beauty is-you can think this way...you have that right. Well at least in our country you do |
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CarlSpackler
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Highway 101
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | I'm not here to do harm or good...read my posts-I've stated many times: If you don't like the U.S. then don't live here, or accept our offerings. I went to Russia...with an open mind and I saw a lot of good and a lot of bad. Same as here in the U.S. but I don't hate Russia and I don't go and preach change for it. And if I live there I certainly would abide by russian ways. I mean here you are living in the U.S. taking in all that we have here and living with some of the highest standards of living in the world and then you ridicule me for defending that...sorry but I see a lot of wrong to your thinking. But the beauty is-you can think this way...you have that right. Well at least in our country you do |
For one, you’re barking up the wrong tree…I like living here and nothing that I posted suggests otherwise.
For two, you ridicule yourself with unfounded, empty statements; anybody with enough intelligence can pick them apart like a Lego toy.
I’m not opposed to anybody standing up for our country, I just don’t think you are well prepared for it, when you get into an argument. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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You came here and started an arguement with me...I asked you some questions as why you came here to the US-still no answer...you've stated facts that are subjective and also dated (1995-1999) a lot has happened since then. It's seems as though you are of the mentality of: "you ask to borrow a car from some one, but then you complain about it" or "you ask to live in someone's house-but then complain about it". I'm glad you like it here...glad you are here...and you are welcome to be here and this country is no more mine than yours and visa versa...that is the beauty of the US. And I am sure you came here legally too. And if you are a citizen and able to vote then vote for your beliefs and wants...but accept the out come.
As for my arguements...I stated facts. Facts about the religious make up, facts about this country being based on Christian beliefs, and facts about my first hand knoweledge of Afghanistan. I went...I saw...and I asked...and I recorded. All on my own and not as a member of the military. I said that our prescense there was minimal 8,000 troops (just stated on the news again CBS) which I only saw a handful of. I saw others Nato...and U.N. forces there-but not that many. And what I saw was primarily all Afghani military and police forces. I saw new construction everywhere, I saw bustling busness going on. I saw women in plain clothes and women in burkas. Met, ate with, slept in the same quarters with, drank tea with, did business with, traveled with, slaughtered goats with, picked apples with, took photos with, etc. etc. So yeah I've got some first hand knoweledge of and chose to accept what I experienced. So how was your trip to there...Soviet military or U.S.? I did 12 years in our armed forces 1991 to 2003...been to 40 countries to Include Iran-but I'm sure you are an expert on there also. Been to the Gulf Regions twice (Iraq, Kuwait, U.A.E., Bahrain) and to Somalia. Lived in Japan, traveled all over Asia and Central Asia. Traveled all over Central America. Crossed the Sahara Desert. But I guess as you try to make out-I'm blind to the world and have no arguements. I've had friends die, friends lose limbs, and I've burried over 50 of my bretheren. So let me tell you...don't come to my country and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I am barking up the wrong tree! You live in the Bay Area where I was born and raised and lived the better part of my life and will return to again in the near future when I build my home there. I know the city like the back of my hand and grew up Surfing OB, Fort Point, Deadman's and all up and down the coast there. My family members are buried there. We had family members die in the 1908 earthquake. Pay your dues and then speak. Sorry to come on Harsh...but you know what-you have a lot of nerve and that which you think you are opposed to...is that which you project. So take a good look in the mirror. I went to your country and listened to the complaints...and my responses were simple...and mainly I just asked if it was getting better! I don't have solutions to Russia's problems and it's not up to me to Solve them and no where in any of my posts have I ever said: "it's Russians like you" |
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CarlSpackler
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Highway 101
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | You came here and started an arguement with me...I asked you some questions as why you came here to the US-still no answer...you've stated facts that are subjective and also dated (1995-1999) a lot has happened since then. It's seems as though you are of the mentality of: "you ask to borrow a car from some one, but then you complain about it" or "you ask to live in someone's house-but then complain about it". I'm glad you like it here...glad you are here...and you are welcome to be here and this country is no more mine than yours and visa versa...that is the beauty of the US. And I am sure you came here legally too. And if you are a citizen and able to vote then vote for your beliefs and wants...but accept the out come.
As for my arguements...I stated facts. Facts about the religious make up, facts about this country being based on Christian beliefs, and facts about my first hand knoweledge of Afghanistan. I went...I saw...and I asked...and I recorded. All on my own and not as a member of the military. I said that our prescense there was minimal 8,000 troops (just stated on the news again CBS) which I only saw a handful of. I saw others Nato...and U.N. forces there-but not that many. And what I saw was primarily all Afghani military and police forces. I saw new construction everywhere, I saw bustling busness going on. I saw women in plain clothes and women in burkas. Met, ate with, slept in the same quarters with, drank tea with, did business with, traveled with, slaughtered goats with, picked apples with, took photos with, etc. etc. So yeah I've got some first hand knoweledge of and chose to accept what I experienced. So how was your trip to there...Soviet military or U.S.? I did 12 years in our armed forces 1991 to 2003...been to 40 countries to Include Iran-but I'm sure you are an expert on there also. Been to the Gulf Regions twice (Iraq, Kuwait, U.A.E., Bahrain) and to Somalia. Lived in Japan, traveled all over Asia and Central Asia. Traveled all over Central America. Crossed the Sahara Desert. But I guess as you try to make out-I'm blind to the world and have no arguements. I've had friends die, friends lose limbs, and I've burried over 50 of my bretheren. So let me tell you...don't come to my country and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I am barking up the wrong tree! You live in the Bay Area where I was born and raised and lived the better part of my life and will return to again in the near future when I build my home there. I know the city like the back of my hand and grew up Surfing OB, Fort Point, Deadman's and all up and down the coast there. My family members are buried there. We had family members die in the 1908 earthquake. Pay your dues and then speak. Sorry to come on Harsh...but you know what-you have a lot of nerve and that which you think you are opposed to...is that which you project. So take a good look in the mirror. I went to your country and listened to the complaints...and my responses were simple...and mainly I just asked if it was getting better! I don't have solutions to Russia's problems and it's not up to me to Solve them and no where in any of my posts have I ever said: "it's Russians like you" |
Wow!
Shouldn’t you be out on a ledge somewhere?  |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Your response is what I expected...and honestly we are here on a website forum and it is very easy to spout off rhetoric and think we are right. I may in fact not be right and we each have our own opinions...and also we do not know who we are dealing with and obviously your life and perspective on things are different or the same as mine.
You live in a great place and I'm sure all the positives out weigh the negatives. That should be the most important thing to this whole discussion...and so how can any of us argue against that? FYI I had plans of moving to Russia this year and I have a 1 year VISA so I still just might...well for at least that long. All my Russian friends think I'm crazy! But as you said the US isn't the only good place. I have some really good photos from Afghanistan-but I need to re size them. And I dated two women from there-both live in the Bay Area now. So Afghanistan has some meaning for me. |
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vox16
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: |
And why did you chose to live in the USA? If there are better places shouldn't you have gone there? Or not have left from which you came? Why did you make a choice? |
Is there a difference between "this is a best place to live thus I live here" and "people here are an absolute angels ( welcome tired and poor, generous, and distribute democracy around the world" ? |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Ñîððåíòî, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| CarlSpackler wrote: |
What I posted has nothing to do with hate of America. I enjoy living in SF, surrounded by very intelligent and well educated Americans and ex-Russians alike.
What it has to do with, is that the reality is neither one-sided nor pink colored. U.S. of A. is a great country, but it’s not the best for many, since everyone chooses for themselves what “the best” means to them. This goes back to the argument of “Why do people hate America?”, simply because America as a State and some of it’s citizens, like yourself, trying to shove down everyone’s throat that American way is the only way to go. I made my choice, but I don’t wear blinders and I don’t push it on others.
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This is a great statement. State the good as well as the bad, provides a more well rounded view of America. And you don't have to hate America to criticize it. It isn't always a great country for blacks, asians, and mexicans. People try to say there is no prejudism in America. I've seen it everytime I go down there, especially to blacks and Indian peoples. |
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mister_wizzz
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Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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2 Surfguy
I didn't see any hate against USA in CarlSpackler's posts. He made a critic
of his country like any citizen of the US who don't think "right or wrong it's my country".
You think exactly like Bush (BTW I guess you are a Bushist right ?), saying stupidities like "you are with us or against us".
You say
- you travelled in 40 countries,
- you dated a lot of foreign women
- you saw some people die
yes and what ? This doesn't mean you are open minded, BTW it is obvious you are not.
Hopefully, you are not the US representative, only the right wing of the Republican party. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I didn't clarify myself and my appologies to Carl Spackler...yes I know he doesn't hate the US and when I said if you don't like the US then don't come here etc etc this wasn't specifically directed towards him. So I will edit that. I'm sure though if I went to any country and I started pointing out all the faults-that the people wouldn't take kindly to my opinions...so why is there the double standards...I go on defending the USA and then I get trashed with it's people like me. BTW I have had several Americans who post here pm me whith how they too are sick of the American trashing that goes on. So my statements are very valid. I know I came on harshly to CarlSpackler and rightly so. But I did get from his posts that he does in fact like America |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mister_wizzz wrote: | 2 Surfguy
I didn't see any hate against USA in CarlSpackler's posts. He made a critic
of his country like any citizen of the US who don't think "right or wrong it's my country".
You think exactly like Bush (BTW I guess you are a Bushist right ?), saying stupidities like "you are with us or against us".
You say
- you travelled in 40 countries,
- you dated a lot of foreign women
- you saw some people die
yes and what ? This doesn't mean you are open minded, BTW it is obvious you are not.
Hopefully, you are not the US representative, only the right wing of the Republican party. |
Also look at how close minded you are: you already have a biased opinion and your statement on Bush-you claim I'm a Bush supporter and yet no where did I state this. Dating lots of women, meeting lots of people, traveling to a lot of places...and accepting thier ways thier customs...yep-that's the definition of being open minded. I didn't say that you are with us or against us. So leave that to Bush. |
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karnot
Frequent Guest
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but I do get tired of the America trashing that goes on...from people who haven't experienced enough to truly have a valid opinion. |
What can i say...have a taste of your own medicine, for once. US bashing is quite fair. No more standing still by being spit on by some twits. All the dirt in the papers...Russians just ignore your mad barking, so it only serves to reassure you that they are all barbarians, murderers, and the like.
| Quote: | | If you don't like the U.S. then don't live here, or accept our offerings. |
The thing is, even if i dont live in US - US is still threatening the world i DO live in. If you just lived peacefully, happily skipping along, without trying to change the world - that would be the best way. |
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mister_wizzz
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Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: |
Also look at how close minded you are: you already have a biased opinion and your statement on Bush-you claim I'm a Bush supporter and yet no where did I state this. |
Right, you didn't say you are a Bush supporter you say that "you love him". I will not search the post because I have something more interesting to do this evening.
Xela already showed how you can say something and exactly the opposite few posts later.
| surfguy wrote: |
Dating lots of women, meeting lots of people, traveling to a lot of places...and accepting thier ways thier customs...yep-that's the definition of being open minded.
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Not for me.
Accepting the ways and customs of the country you are visiting is the minimum you can do.
By the way, a question : all your travels have been paid by the US Army or it is coming from an personal initiative ?
Saying you are usually anti X with any X you aren't agree with, behaving like you did with Carl, this is the definition of being narrow minded, but I have to admit that if you apologize, it is a good point.
| surfguy wrote: |
I didn't say that you are with us or against us. So leave that to Bush. |
That's right, I don't remember you said that but you think it so strongly. Putting for example Hugo Chavez (who has been elected by more than 60% of its people) and Bin Laden in the same bag is a proof of that. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Right, you didn't say you are a Bush supporter you say that "you love him". I will not search the post because I have something more interesting to do this evening. |
Nope...don't love him either
| Quote: | | Xela already showed how you can say something and exactly the opposite few posts later. |
Depends on the context...lot of times I'm being very sarcastic
| Quote: | Not for me.
Accepting the ways and customs of the country you are visiting is the minimum you can do. |
Well...absolutel-it is the least we can do
| Quote: | | By the way, a question : all your travels have been paid by the US Army or it is coming from an personal initiative ? |
Central Asia, North Africa, Europe, Central America, Japan, Austrailia, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, Georgia, Armenia,...all were on my own-but the Gulf Areas-obviously were military ventures.
| Quote: | | Saying you are usually anti X with any X you aren't agree with, behaving like you did with Carl, this is the definition of being narrow minded, but I have to admit that if you apologize, it is a good point. |
When I wrote-I knew I would come across in the way I did...my whole point is this...don't say that I am wrong for thinking I am right with my views...Are you not wrong then for thinking you are right with your views? That is if we go by that arguement. Whether we are pro Bush...pro left pro right pro kerry pro who ever-that's not my point. My point was: people trash America and Americans when they have no experience of America...and if they do and it's a bad one-then why are you still here...or want to come here? This is my arguement. And I wasn't directing it towards anyone specific. I asked a honest question... If there are better places in the world then why didn't you go to there? Why come here? I was borne here...I've traveled...I've lived abroad...and I have chosen to have my permanent residence here.
| surfguy wrote: |
I didn't say that you are with us or against us. So leave that to Bush. |
You don't have to be with us...and you don't have to be against us...you can just be. It's ok to exist on this planet and just go about existing.
| Quote: | | That's right, I don't remember you said that but you think it so strongly. Putting for example Hugo Chavez (who has been elected by more than 60% of its people) and Bin Laden in the same bag is a proof of that |
Oh but they are in the same bag...both have publicly stated they are anti U.S. and Hugo Chavez has publicly stated he supports Bin Ladden. And Bin Ladden met with Chavez from what I read prior to 9-11. Bin Ladden visited South America on numerous occasions prior to 9-11
So sorry they are in the same bag!
You sound like you are pro Chavez...if not why do you continually bring him up? Do you honestly think the elections are true down there? Chavez just said he is going to change the laws to where he can be electd into office permanently. Just think if Bush did that[/quote] |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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[quote="karnot"] | Quote: | | but I do get tired of the America trashing that goes on...from people who haven't experienced enough to truly have a valid opinion. |
| Quote: | | What can i say...have a taste of your own medicine, for once. US bashing is quite fair. No more standing still by being spit on by some twits. All the dirt in the papers...Russians just ignore your mad barking, so it only serves to reassure you that they are all barbarians, murderers, and the like. |
So have you been spit on? And All the dirt in the papers? I'm sorry you feel insecure and insignificant...I actually have a good opinion of Russians...and it is not what we read and see...which is my point-the US is not what you read and see. Taste of my own medecine? I am reacting...not initiating
| Quote: | | The thing is, even if i dont live in US - US is still threatening the world i DO live in. If you just lived peacefully, happily skipping along, without trying to change the world - that would be the best way |
Oh so then by your thinking...all Americans should be trashed because of what our Government does...ok Putin just had people murdered because they didn't agree with his views. Russia carved up Eastern Europe and suppressed the people for the past 60 years. Russia stood by and allowed ethnic Armenians to be slaughtered by the Azebajanis and did nothing in 1991-talk about genocide. Not to mention what is happening in the caucases right now and Georgia and the Ukraine, and Belarus, etc. Etc. So I should hate all of you because of this? Come on...
Name one country that the US has taken since WWII...you can't. Are we threatening the world? Do you feel threatened by us. Economically we may be advantageous over the rest...but is that our fault that we strive to excel. Come on get with the program. Russia just said to Shell-give us 51% or get out. And answer me this-why did Russia go into Afghanistan? Why is Russia doing business with a country like Iran, or any other country for that matter. Why do countries even do business with other countries at all. Russia has bought up a lot of businesses here in the US...how come? Why have so many Russians come to here.
Countries have national interests and economic interests. Individual people have interests too. We live in a world based on commerce and trade...people want our societies to provide health care, energy, and roads and security...and who ever controls the world's energy supplies control the world. Oil is that energy supply and everyone unfortunately wants a piece of it. I asked the Afghanis why Russia went into Afghanistan...Pipe line was thier reply. So why is America and the west in Afghanistan...pipeline was thier reply. Bush flat out said that we will not let the Iraqi oil fall into other's hands. Putin flat out said: we will not let Russian resources be in the control of foriegn entities. So it is in all of our interests to not allow one country or person to control or threaten the worlds energy supplies.
Do I support Bush-perhaps on some things...do I disagree with him...perhaps on some things. Will it all metter in 2 years-no He'll be out of office. |
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